So my motor (Rascal Scooter Drivetrain Wheels Motor Transaxle Assembly) for my around the house p...

[G+_Rud Dog]

So my motor (Rascal Scooter Drivetrain Wheels Motor Transaxle Assembly) for my around the house project was delivered today now I need all the help I can get to reverse engineer the wiring harness. Any help with this endeavor is welcome.

Here is all the info collected from the Assembly itself.

Found on the Axle Assembly

ASI Technologies Inc

Horsham, PA 190044 USA

215-674-8910

www.asidrives.com

sales@asidrives.com

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Found on axle assembly

Motor Bolt Torque 20-30 in-lbs 2.3-5.6 B/NM?

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Found on axle assembly

ASI Technology Inc Info:

Drive System Serial Number: 2710-03113784

Model: MK20-19.7

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Found on clutch assembly

Warner Electric <----drive clutch assembly?

Warner electric Shui-Hing China Z187/6/C

CIM BRK - 808 - R001

WR198A187p1 24Vdc 5 5Nm 14/NOV/06

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Found on motor

ELECTRIC MOBILITY - MOTOR 24V DC CIM EM801-003 080700

[G+_Eddie Foy]

Get the service manual for the scooter it goes in.

[G+_Rud Dog]

Eddie Foy Agreed only problem I am facing is the lack of cross reference between the parts numbers shown and models used on.

 

So what happens if I connect the battery directly to the plus and minus of the motor for testing?

[G+_Eddie Foy]

Gotta dig.

The motor spins?  The clutch may be a brake.  Where it needs current to release to allow the motor to spin.  (I'd think that would be the correct way to use a motor brake on a scooter, fail-safe)

 

Can you spin the motor by hand?

How many wires?  (just guessing 2 for motor, 2 for clutch and maybe more for temp sensor and tacho)

 

Poke around with an ohm meter.

[G+_Rud Dog]

Eddie Foy Tried the the battery charger set at 12Vdc and was able to get it to run. Reversing the leads got it to turn the opposite direction. Now will try and find a dpdt center off relay so I can control it with on of those IOT devices.

Guess my question concerning continually using a DC voltage as opposed to PWM signal, will it overheat the motor?

Using of course 24Vdc for the final connect.

[G+_Eddie Foy]

With the bigger motor you are gonna run into problems.

 

Why not just get a pair of small  SLA batteries (like UPS batteries) and wire them in series?

 

I've never looked for one, but don't think I've ever seen a center off relay.  But you could use a DPDT and a DPST combo.  Set your IoT to select direction, then another pin for  power.

 

But work on an H bdrige with some MOSFETS. (logic level if you are using a arduino)  Things wlll run better.

[G+_Rud Dog]

Eddie Foy The battery charger was used to test the motor only, not as a long term solution plan on using couple of 12Vdc batteries as you suggested. As for the H brdige that sounds like the way to go. Will be following up as I go along.

[G+_Eddie Foy]

When you get the 24V **DO** measure current draw. Preferably with load to sized bridge correctly.

[G+_Rud Dog]

When looking at PWM motor controllers they call out 6V 12V 24V 6A DC Motor.

Is the current called out for the lowest voltage? Can't imagine you can get 6 Amps for each voltage or can you?

[G+_Jason Marsh]

If you're going to go with relays, you can wire the wiper of the contacts of each relay to the motor, to each end of motor windings, B- to the NC contact of both, and B+ to the NO contacts. This way you energize one relay and that relay closes to send current to run the motor. Ground is provided by the NC contacts of the other (inactive) relay. If a fault occurs that causes both relays to energize, the motor does nothing. Since most relays you can source at your local auto parts or farm store are DPST, you can use the second set of contacts on each relay to disable the other.

 

Smaller motors are often controlled this way when directional control is all that is required. While there are double-throw relays available, they are more costly than single-throw. I've replaced several double-throw relays in window motor controls. Because of packaging needs they tend to be a little undersized and the contacts will eventually burn out.

 

On the '02 TrailBlazer we had for 13 years, I replaced window motor relays three times in the driver's door module, and once in the passenger door module. Desoldering was a pain and as internal traces got burnt I had to jumper around them. It would have been smarter to build an H bridge with transistors, but Detroit is all about saving three or four cents here and there and everywhere. If the door modules weren't on CAN Bus I would have built replacements.

[G+_Jason Marsh]

Wait a sec..

Do we know what you're using the motor for? What's the project, anyways?

[G+_Rud Dog]

Jason Marsh Thank you. The idea on this project is to replace the rear wheels on my yard cart. It has four wheels front are like a little read wagon meaning you steer by turn the pull handle. It also has a lever allowing you to dump contents manually.

There will be some larger loads but will test using bag of concrete starting with 50lb bags and working my way up till the fuse blows.

 

Now since these motors and axle assemblies come from mobility carts I am guessing they are designed to carry folks any where from 200 to 300 lbs but just guessing here since I can not nail down the model it came from using the info found on the trans-axle or motor.

 

Small update was able to find the size wire used for the motor and it is 12 AWG stranded.

 

As stated before can not seem to figure out what is mean on the PWM motor controllers available what the current is for the various voltages called out.

Most state three voltages with on current rating and this has me a bit confused.

[G+_Rud Dog]

PS

This was interesting reading:

http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/67663/criteria-behind-selecting-pwm-frequency-for-speed-control-of-a-dc-motor

[G+_Rud Dog]

One other requirement is reverse capability.

[G+_Jason Marsh]

Hmmm..

So making it RC, or control on the handle?

 

There are some pretty heavy ESCs available for R/C models that will give you PWM control of the motor, with reverse. No need to build the motor control, just install it.

 

Surely there are plans or project info for a home-built motor test rig that could be adapted to controlling your powered cart.

 

Thinking back a few months when KH was pretty much Drone How, Fr. Robert Ballecer, SJ used a test rig for measuring thrust. Something of that sort could be a pretty good starting point.

 

Perhaps KH should do a motor control segment!!!

[G+_Rud Dog]

Jason Marsh Started off with "on handle control" but if there are ESCs (not sure what that is) for R/C models that will work with 24Vdc and amperage somewhere between 5 and 10 AMPS (guessing here) then will need to check out your suggestion. It seems to meet all the requirements I outlined.

Going to start googling ESCs and R/C and see if I can find what you are referencing.

 

As for:

"Surely there are plans or project info for a home-built motor test rig that could be adapted to controlling your powered cart."

 

Each time I find something online which appears to match my needs I contact the author but the response is slow going.

 

Thank you for giving me another avenue to check out.

[G+_Rud Dog]

How could this tiny little controller handle the voltage and amperage shown. Thinking it would burst into flames. What am I overlooking in my search for my PWM motor controller?

https://www.amazon.com/6V-30V-Reversible-Motor-Control-Controller/dp/B00L33OZO0

[G+_Jason Marsh]

Indeed, many articles or forum posts get stagnant or OPs are unresponsive. I ran into that when trying to work out a solution to replace an expensive speed control for a golf cart. I settled on paying $$$ for repair of the unit I have.

 

For reference; ESC= Electronic Speed Control. They connect to motor, power source, and (usually) R/C receiver. They can be controlled by other methods/devices, though I have no experience with that. There is a difference between ESC for brushed and brushless motors. You will need to select appropriate type for your application.

[G+_Rud Dog]

Jason Marsh You opened another path for controlling the motor never took in to account the existing system of a electric golf cart.

It is designed to carry not only two passengers but their golf bags as well.

Will have to look and see if used golf carts are with in budjet of my project.

[G+_Jason Marsh]

I haven't used those, but recommend you follow what Eddie Foy said. You absolutely need to know the load you're working with. Once you know that, you're probably safe trying such a device as you linked IF the load fits within the stated load rating of that device.

[G+_Rud Dog]

Jason Marsh Agree with load analysis but kind of hard to do with out 24Vdc supply that can handle putting it under load. Might have to buy one of those cheap pwm controllers and take a chance on testing under load.

[G+_Jason Marsh]

If you're going to use two 12V batteries to power it, then there's your 24v power supply for testing.

[G+_Rud Dog]

Can't help wondering how I would calculate the current for the pwm controller as they only give one current rating.

They call out input voltage of any where from

6V-30V. And show the amperage as 6A.

 

Not sure what the amperage would be at 6V or at 30V. Any ideas how to calculate the amperage at different voltage settings?

[G+_Jason Marsh]

The max amperage rating is usually at the max voltage, unless otherwise stated.