As a strong Windows 8 lover (It 's the best OS ever made) I think that re-adding the start butto...

[G+_Jim Jackson (J3xtr)]

As a strong Windows 8 lover (It's the best OS ever made) I think that re-adding the start button would be a good move. If you recall in the first preview of Windows 8 they had a start button but people complained that it was too ugly (or something like that). I have never used the start button, when I try to teach my friends how to use Windows 8 I tell them that they have the Windows button on their keyboard and they should learn to use it. Once you do that the start screen works almost the exact same way as the start menu except looking much more modern and having greater functionality. The main problem users have with with Windows 8 is discoverability, not with Metro itself. Also is the misconception that the start screen is an entirely new OS, when it is just a replacement for the start menu. The start button will inform users that that it is indeed just an upgrade of what they have been using, not something completely different and as "jarring" as the media claims it to be.

[G+_Colin Willson]

http://anythinggeekoriginal.blogspot.ca/2012/07/bashing-windows-8-lack-of-knowledge-and.html

[G+_Colin Jones (Ponder - F]

I had the misfortune to use Windows 8 a couple of weeks ago. It took me 2 minutes to find the Control Panel.

I'm sticking with Linux for myself, I have much more choice in how I set it up. I have a legal Windows 7 to replace XP on the other computer. I hope I never have to suffer Windows 8 on a non-touch screen computer. It's a mobile UI thrown on to a Desktop OS.

[G+_Colin Willson]

Colin Jones Calling the the start screen a "mobile UI" is not really fair. Being a replacement for the start menu what it really is is a "new start menu UI". That's all it is. It works the same as the Windows 7 start menu. Press the start key, type control panel and press enter. The way the start screen works s the exact same way Gnome 3 and Unity work on Linux.  Although people seem to have a problem with these better, more modern UIs as well.

[G+_Colin Jones (Ponder - F]

I'm one of those people. I use KDE 4 in Desktop Folder View, but this is also part of my problem with Windows 8... the lack of choice. The "classic" style desktop in W8 is an app that runs on top of Modern UI (correct me if I'm wrong).

Another thing, if you want any apps that run directly under this UI you must go via the Windows Marketplace, and I've heard it can be a nightmare setting up an account to do so.

Even on my mobile devices I use an OS that I have a choice with. Yes, Android prefers to be tied to the Play Store, but it's not compulsory. I'll say that word again: choice and it's very, very important to me.

[G+_Kien Tran]

I've only ever used the keyboard to activate the start menu, so it was just natural for me with Windows 8 to hit the start key, and start typing so it'll find whatever I was looking for (pseudo flat file system ftw).  

 

That being said, I think Microsoft should definitely put the Start menu back, but have it act the same way as if you press the Start key now, bring up and hide the "modern" overlay.  This way those who are screaming about it will just feel like they replaced the start menu, and those who are less experienced with computers wouldn't ever notice a difference.

 

To be honest, I wish that's how it worked to begin with.  Not having the Windows icon there in the bottom left is actually very disconcerting, even to me.

[G+_Colin Willson]

Kien Tran To be clear, you mean just the start button, not the old menu itself, correct? If so, I completely agree. That's why I mentioned that it was originally in the Windows 8 beta when I first started using Windows 8. But it was actually removed because people were complaining about it not being the Windows 7 orb shape. I think a button is very important for people.

 

The final big issue with Windows 8 for novice users is the discoverability of the charms bars. They work the same way that the  universal menu bar has worked in OSX forever, except...that they're invisible. I'm wondering how Microsoft will try to solve this.

[G+_Kien Tran]

Colin Willson Yeah totally, I'm pretty over the start menu itself, esp once they put in the search field circa Vista?

 

Hopefully they will do something about that charm bar though, I agree it's hard to find.

[G+_Colin Willson]

Colin Jones Calling the desktop an app is interesting, because obviously it's more than that. It's not loaded to conserve battery power on mobile devices, but it does this on the desktop as well. Interestingly enough, with multiple monitors the desktop is automatically loaded on boot because the start screen only fills one monitor. 

 

I'm not sure what you mean about it being a "nightmare" setting up a Microsoft account. I literally have had one my whole life. Ah, Hotmail... Also, if you really wanted to you can install third-party Metro apps through Powershell :p But there's really no reason why you would want to do that. No updates, etc.

[G+_Colin Jones (Ponder - F]

Two people, both very tech, one even a developer, had major trouble setting up and linking to a Microsoft account, to the point of annoyed tweets. I'll try to dig them up when I get home this evening.

[G+_Tim Allen]

Colin, you do realize it actually is a whole new OS, right? Microsoft wants the old desktop to go away, leaving you with the start screen and nothing but full screen apps. It's extremely limiting, especially dealing with files--a problem that was solved long ago with the desktop metaphor. If you haven't already, try using 8 strictly in Metro for a couple days. Pretend the desktop and the old applications are gone... Is 8 still the best then?

[G+_Tor Iver Wilhelmsen]

It's not a "whole new OS", it is Windows NT version 6.2. But they have thrown a different skin on top, but that just means that startup runs a different desktop app than explorer.exe.

[G+_Lee Barnett]

I act in exactly the same manner when using Windows 7 or Windows 8 when I want to start an application.

 

I press the Windows key and type a few letters of what I want to run.

 

It really does not matter how this is displayed to me - the program runs and the similarities between the two OSes return.

 

What I'm surprised people have not complained about is the lack of a clock in the status bar of the desktop. Swiping from the right side of the screen is therefore what you need to do in order to see what time it is.  Showstopper?  ;-)

[G+_Tim Allen]

Tor - I'm not talking about underlying code, that's not what this guy is talking about.  In his initial comments he seems to think Metro is nothing but a new launcher, it's not.  Metro absolutely is a whole new OS.  Completely different UI, no more windowing, no menus, etc., etc.  

[G+_Colin Willson]

Tim Allen That would be horrible. But that's not how Microsoft necessarily intends you to use this. Consumers are definitely getting the wrong message. Eventually the desktop may go away, but by that time you will be able to do everything in the new interface. Trust me, I don't want to the desktop to go away as much as the next power user, but as it stands the start screen is where you go to start: metro apps, desktop apps, web apps. That is all.

 

tl;dr

The statement "If you haven't already, try using 8 strictly in Metro for a couple days." is basically the stupidest thing I have ever heard. It's not forcing you to do that in any way. I do however like to use Metro apps in conjunction with the desktop. (ie. MetroTwit snapped to the right of my screen.)

[G+_Colin Willson]

Lee Barnett You re saying that the start screen doesn't have a clock. This is true. One of the first apps I installed was a clock live tile app. Just go to the store and search for "clock" or "time" and you can find a live tile clock for the start screen. There are at least a dozen :D

[G+_Tim Allen]

Colin, I think it's coming sooner than most people think.  RT is the closest example of what they want to get to.  From all I've heard they seem to think the failure of RT is due to having a desktop at all in it--not that people actually wanted a fully functioning desktop environment.  

 

The word from Mary Jo that the Start button is coming, to me isn't relenting, it's doubling down on Metro--they think consumers just can't find the start screen, not that they don't want it.  Also, note she said that boot to desktop would likely be for enterprise only.  I think regular Windows consumers are going to say goodbye to the desktop by version 9.  I just don't see how they can flesh out what's missing by then or ever--I think it was purposely left out.  They chose a very simplistic style for a reason.  IMHO

[G+_Leighton Grant]

In my opinion Windows 8 is fine as it is. Not perfect by a long shot but I think most people just hate change is all, plus there is a lot if Microsoft hate out there.

 

[G+_Christian Rumshizzle]

Time to split. Offer Windows 7 with new features rebranded as "Windows Classic" and take Windows 8 RT and rebrand it as just Windows 8.0. Windows 8.0 can go on tablets or mobile like iOS. Duck tape them all together with some good cloud services and you have a lovely and profitable operating system sandwich. And you have engineers left over for other cool stuff -- google glass style.

[G+_Christian Rumshizzle]

While you are at it, might as well replace a CEO too.

[G+_Colin Willson]

Christian Rumshizzle for CEO! The only thing is, how long before Apple gets rid of OSX or combines it even more with iOS.

[G+_Christian Rumshizzle]

Doesn't matter for Microsoft. Too many businesses/firms/medical business/geeks need a desktop (tons on XP!) -- they can justify a "windows classic" for a few years. But they need to get their act together on a mobile windows.

[G+_John C. Dvorak]

classicshell.net

[G+_Fr. Robert Ballecer, SJ]

UI is UI... there will be fans and detractors. We're used to that.

 

What I like about 8 is how the kernel has been improved significantly... let me give you two concrete examples.

 

1. I had the opportunity to run a test with two Acer Aspire S7 Ultrabooks. Win8 on one, Win7 on the other. Identical hardware and software setups. I ran the same complex render on each machine (Adobe Premier) and the Win8 machine was almost 20% faster.

 

2. Almost all of my video editing work is done with AVCHD files. Win7 would kill Explorer 1/20th of the time when copying/previewing those files. Win8 handles them without as much as a hickup.

 

So FOR ME... Win8 is a no brainer... though I do avoid the Metro interface like the plague.

[G+_Colin Willson]

Fr. Robert Ballecer, SJ Absolutely true. Windows 7 was almost unusable on my netbook, yet it runs perfectly fast with Windows 8. That alone should be worth the upgrade for most people (and the millions of netbook buyers, lol). Then comes the issue of consumers not buying new PCs because Windows keep getting faster and faster on lower end hardware....hmm.