TWiT - Coding 101 - GitHub

[G+_Joe C. Hecht]

TWiT - Coding 101 - GitHub

 

After reading complains of example code not properly commented, I finally had to take a look at TWiT's GitHub offerings.

 

First, let me say the GitHub was almost impossible for me to find.

 

Perhaps I'm just old, perhaps I am just going blind, but I saw no links on the show's page, none on the show's wiki, and none here. Perhaps I just missed it, thus my point. I finally picked up a link that Shannon once posted. Sad. Very sad.

 

I downloaded the zip for the Perl modules, and noticed that the files where in Unix format.

 

Sure, suggest a Windows version of Perl (most of your viewers are running Windows), suggest Windows Notepad for an editor, then give your audience files with unix line endings and watch the perl code turn into complete garbage inside of Windows Notepad. Sad. Very sad.

Your code guru is using a mac. Don't you think you should be using the tools you are recommending? Should you not est your uploads using the same tools as your viewers?

 

What is wrong with you?

 

The rumored reports of lack of commenting of the code is true.

 

It is also true that the code is sorely lacking in content.

 

As an example for a newbie, It's slop. Nothing short of slop.

 

Notes the show hosts should consider:

 

Pointers to your GitHub should be clearly posted - everywhere.

 

The example code you upload should be downloaded and tested using the same tools you recommend.

 

If you claim your guy is a guru, then it should be so.

 

Guru's should miss nothing when it comes to explaining code to newbies, else they are no guru. You need guru's. People that can explain things to beginners.

 

Example code for beginners should be truly worthwhile, meaningful, and well commented, not slop.

 

Again, this example code is nothing short of slop. Someone needs to be Gibb's over this.

 

Hosts: Do you not have the time and resources to do a good job?

 

Must your code gurus be limited to using only your friends and staffers?

 

Can you not schedule some top notch names that can do a first class

job of communicating material to the beginning programmer?

 

Is it really so hard to do a job you can truly be proud of?

 

You have a small army of every experienced coders right here that are

willing to help you, and you have been foolish not to make use of them.

 

Give you users the same care you give your advertisers. I bet you double check your ad copy, so do the same with the material you present.

 

TJoe - Code4Sale, LLC

[G+_Kelvin Saggers]

Sadly I have to agree with most of the comments above. This program is a good concept BUT ha some issues that need to be addressed if its truly going to be a newbies/ beginners  guide to programming

Beginners code ( hell most code) should have ample and relevant comments/remarks embedded in it.  The code should be tested. The "Guru" might be great at coding but they are of very little use to beginners if they can't clearly explain and teach it to them. Links to code and examples should be easy to find. and if possible give links to the language under discussion on each major platform eg OS/windows/Linux etc and clearly mark what each one is

 

If a things worth doing its worth doing properly and well

[G+_Darryl Medley]

Since Patrick created his examples to be explained on the show, I don't think he realized that they would live on in the GitHub so he didn't add comments. My earlier post was meant as a humorous attempt at making him aware of this fact. Let's hope he gets the message.

[G+_Lee Crocker]

This guy is actually much better than the previous "expert"... at least he's clearly a real Perl programmer. And the examples were mostly about string interpolation and basic variable use, so I didn't expect much more there. So oddly, though I've been the one here most loudly complaining about lack of expertise, I think I have to defend the new guy a little. Good point about finding the Github. I would also tell users how to deal with line endings rather than polute Github with Windows files. Any real code editor on Windows (basically anything but Notepad) can handle Unix line endings.

[G+_Joe C. Hecht]

The +Lee Crocker defense? Clearly someone was asleap at the wheel when that slop got posted. I would agree about teaching users about both Windows and Linux line endings, but to call the majorities line endings "pollution" is a bit much. The real pollution is the code example posted.

[G+_Nate Follmer]

The code probably isn't well documented because they want you to watch the show and follow along? Just a thought...

[G+_Fr. Robert Ballecer, SJ]

Joe Hecht -- You know I respect you...  I've tried to explain why c101 is NOT done the way you want it to be done, but each week you clearly voice your displeasure.

 

You appear to have a well-thought-out plan for teaching a 101 course in 8 episodes... and you seem to have more resources to dedicate to the task than Shannon Morse or I can spare...

 

So let's do this...

 

I will give you 2 episodes to do a 101 course on a language of your choice, in the way you think a 101 program should work.

 

I want you to put your best foot forward. Make the show informative, entertaining and the way you want it to be. I want it to shame the current C101. I want it to be everything you want in a 101 show.

 

Peace,

Padre

[G+_Joe C. Hecht]

+Fr. Robert Ballecer, SJ

 

I am truly honored by your proposal Padre, and wholeheartedly accept the challenge.

 

My two episodes shall cover the basic concepts of programming in a general sense, and serve as the "baseline of the knowledge" needed to pick up any language and run with it.

 

I believe this baseline will nicely complement what you are doing, and serve as a very fine "starting point of reference" for any language you wish to cover in the future.

 

In short, I plan to deliver two episodes that you will able to refer to at anytime by saying:

 

"if you are not familiar with these concepts, check out our two "baseline of knowledge" episodes that will give you the quick start you need to enter the world of the code monkey".

 

Rather than concentrate on a language and syntax, the episodes will concentrate on clearly presenting the basic concepts of types, structures, logic, functions, objects, program structure, and good programming practices that apply to any language.

 

The presentation of the materials will be short, concise, and easy to understand, and contain a lot of visuals.

 

I would really like to see these two episodes become a "heavy asset" that you continually employ on your show. In short, I want to use this opportunity to help YOU help as many people as possible to enter the world of the "code monkey".

 

I want to make a difference in a big way. I am not here to put anything to shame, but rather add a small bit of needed icing to the cake. I believe the show will be very well served with the "baseline of knowledge" episodes (do we need a better name?).

 

Know that I am well equipped on this end for the production, sporting access to plenty of great software to generate the needed visuals (some in 3D), high def cameras, and even a couple of Heil PR-40's (that are sorely in need of a dusting off).

 

Before you start planning a vacation, know I will require a small bit of time to schedule the production into my workload (I am a busy guy, currently juggling a project consisting of over 29 thousand source files). If my hair actually grows back out in the interim, I may even be able to make an appearance in the production :) Read between the lines on that one and know I have a lot of my plate right now. Still, I think you sense I am the kind of guy that will deliver.

 

If this all sounds acceptable, please contact me directly so we can work out the details.

 

I think you have the direct email address I made for you to contact me, if not, message me at my email gateway below (written in Perl) and I will send it to you:

 

http://code4sale.com/email/TJoe

 

Thank you for the opportunity to help benefit the programming community, and thanking you in advance for your blessing (and guidance) in this endeavour.

 

Peace, Love, coffee mugs, and perhaps some mouse pads,

 

TJoe - Code4Sale, LLC

[G+_Lee Crocker]

Let me know if I could be of help. I also have a fair amount of A/V gear.

[G+_Nate Follmer]

If you're truly trying to help the show and the community, maybe you could give some constructive criticism instead of calling someone's work 'slop'. It's that kind of attitude that drives noobs off. We should be here to help, not negatively pick apart someone elses work. I'm not here to fight and I can see you clearly know what you're talking about when it comes to programming, so don't take this the wrong way - I truly respect your knowledge. Regardless of how you take this, I'll throw my 2 cents in:

 

I've been programming for the better part of 12 years, mostly C++, focusing on games and simulations and just started my trek into web heavy languages only 4-5 years ago (PHP and JS mostly). Just last year, I started making Android apps also, even ended up with a fairly successful app on the market (fishing stuff, usually not interesting to my fellow geeks :P).

 

Now, my other hats - My 'full time' job is editing a fishing TV show that airs on NBC Sports, WFN, Comcast Sports Network and Destination America (sorry, I'm proud of this one, I have to gloat). Our episodes usually consist of 3-4 days worth of footage that we have to cut down into a ~30 minute format. That's a lot of 'time' to cover in 30 minutes and have an entertaining show pop out the other end. It's very stressful at times, especially when we are backed up with other projects like commercials for our clients, sometimes we are working on the episode up until the hour it's due. 

 

So, what's my point in my giant rant of self promotion? 

 

I can't imagine working on a live show like this and getting it 'perfect' and fulfilling for everyone. I only have to worry about 1 show, most of these people are working on multiple shows per DAY - Things are going to get missed and it's easy to sit back and pick apart someone's work (I do it to myself after we deliver an episode). Could some things be done better? Always, but in whose eyes? You'll NEVER get it right for everyone, regardless of the outcome. Their trying to cram YEARS worth of learning into, what, 3-4 episodes per language? They're bound to miss something (plus, remember, this is a SHOW, it's got to be entertaining or no one will watch). One could argue that they should spend more time on specific languages... I feel that would send more people away than it would help. If I want to learn PHP, I'm not going to sit and watch 15 episodes about Perl (Even though I'm not really interested in Perl, I've still been watching, never know when you may need it). I think the format is just right to get people 'into it', then leave them with enough to learn on their own, if they choose to continue. 

 

You still with me? Good :)

 

Between the show, the GitHub, this page and the chatroom, there is PLENTY of help available for people who don't understand something. 

 

Personally, I like looking at the code and figuring it out on my own. If it's littered with comments, I 'think' I get it, but sometimes I don't. I learn best by failure, not by someone holding my hand. It sticks with me if I have to do a little searching for what is really going on. Can everyone learn that way? Nope, but again, you'll never please EVERYONE.

 

TL:DR - Don't be so quick to judge, hindsight is always 20/20. There's too much info to cover in a few episodes, things will get missed.  

 

** End Rant **

 

Now, Fr. Robert Ballecer, SJ and crew, keep doing what you're doing and bring the love of frustration to the world! Much respect from me for putting on so many LIVE shows, across many topics AND you keep them entertaining and informative... That's hard to do and almost impossible to find anymore, so thank you. I've been on a TWiT hiatus due to my work schedules and just binge watched the series so far (or maybe I just never knew about it)... It's like I'm on Netflix or something!  

 

Joe Hecht again, don't take this the wrong way - This isn't meant to be a blast at you, more of a general overall 'state of the union' address from a newcomer of the show. Production is tough, live production is even tougher.

 

Random ending sentence because I don't think this post is long enough. 

[G+_Joe C. Hecht]

+Nathan Follmer I submitted to the Coding 101 community 439 lines of well commented code:

 

http://www.code4sale.com/tjoe/twit-coding101/makeimage.htm

 

I took the time to test it :)

[G+_Nate Follmer]

Looking over it now actually - Very cool little program. 

[G+_Joe C. Hecht]

BTW +Nathan Follmer, I just call it like I see it, and the code was slop. Truly a very poor example (at best).

 

I never said it was easy to do a show, in fact, I can be quoted as stating quite the opposite. But that was a rush job example that required 2 minutes at best to produce, and your time as a viewer is (your investment) should be worth more than that. It is just that simple. This time, we deserved a little bit more that we got.

 

Do not forget, someone is cashing in on your viewing. Dollars in the bank. Real cash green. Your view has a value, and TWiT will be the last to argie that one.

 

Also, I have posted paise to the hosts in the past. How quickly that is forgotten?

[G+_Nate Follmer]

Well I apologize for missing that, I haven't been through every post :) Like I said, new guy here. 

 

Anywho, I appreciate the fact you don't beat around the bush - Sugarcoats get you nowhere. 

 

Yes, my viewership does eventually turn into money for them, but I'm viewing for free (ok I have to listen to a little plug, I'll take it though) - so maybe I'm just a little more forgiving because of it. I know that end well, we don't please the sponsors, our show is gone, yet, if we don't please the viewers, they won't watch and most viewers don't want a 30 minute infomercial for your sponsors. I'm rambling again...

 

I'm sure the people behind the scenes are put to use across many different aspects of production, things are going to get rushed to get 'out the door' on time - Mistakes are made - I'm pulled between show editing, maintaining and adding new features to the websites/apps, footage archiving/cataloging, heck even some graphic design... I know what it's like to get pulled around and miss the basics. Switching my head between thinking logically and thinking creatively was a VERY hard skill to learn and it seems like this may be the case for all involved in this show (I can't imagine they task 1 person to make these examples and that's ALL they do). We're on the other end and can easily pick apart these examples because if we are here browsing, we surely have enough time :) Who knows, what time constraints this person was under when this was released. Is that a good practice to continue? No, but it happens. 

 

Rambling again... Need to stop that, anyway, I think what I'm getting at is, let's be here to help people understand these examples, not just say 'this is wrong, that is wrong', that's mostly what I saw when I went back through the posts (quickly, I'll add, which is what most people will do). If all they see is negativity, do you think they'll stick around?

[G+_Joe C. Hecht]

Nathan Follmer My praise for the show has been rare, but not totally absent, and my honesty is well known for being nothing short of brutal.

 

But to be fair, I do make sure that goes for both sides. I will

champion just as hard when I spot something deserving spectacular and most likely un-noticed.

 

I'm old school, and these days, sadly, it seems I have to look

extra hard to spot something deserving spectacular to rave about, but you can bet a roll of stamps on the fact that I do look, and I do pull out my pen and write a darn fine "Dear Sir" letter whenever I can find a deserving opportunity.

 

I will also be the first in line to call out the fact that I am

nothing short of a grumpy old man. Few have any idea just how effort and pain it is for me to write anything at all, so I can promise you I don't just post negatively for the fun of it, as it takes a lot of effort. And my rants? Well, they usually do come with some sort of constructive ending (providing you read it with an upbeat tone).

 

This show touches my heart. Know that my investment in the show is very real, and my time spent here posting can be measured against a serious chunk of change. I do want to make a difference, and I want to see this show succeed in the best way possible.

 

Finally, it is time for me to "put up or shut up". And I am going to try my best to deliver :)

 

All the best!

 

TJoe

[G+_Nate Follmer]

You certainly 'put up' Joe, the Perl code you posted is a good example. Nice to see something neat, instead of the typical 'LOOK! You can do math or print some text!' examples that you see on other sites. I think more simple, yet intriguing, examples like that will keep people hooked. It's kind of like learning Algebra... 'When am I ever going to use this?' I used to get that feeling when we'd make C++ programs print statements in the command line. Although I used to be able to whip up a fine command line version of battleship :P 

[G+_Shannon Morse]

Little harsh, Joe. Little harsh. Perhaps when I'm back from my wedding vacation I'll be able to do more, and perhaps TWiT would be kind enough to give me a raise to support this show. That would be epic.

[G+_Lee Crocker]

A minor peeve of mine, Joe: JPEG should not be an option in your program. JPEG is for photographs. Drawings, text, and similar iconic images should compress just as well or better with PNG and won't have the horrible edge artifacts JPEG will produce.

[G+_Joe C. Hecht]

Lee Crocker You are very correct Lee. If anyone should know that, it should be me (I hail from the printing, and publishing, and graphics industry), and that point sure deserves to be made (and was exactly why the default format chosen was gif).

 

I have added a whole comment section to the code explaining the issue, although I did leave the code in as an example of how it could be done (thinking it made a good example of an "if else", and perhaps someone might even want to modify the code to write on a photo.

 

Thanks for the great catch!

 

TJoe - Code4Sale, LLC

[G+_Joe C. Hecht]

Shannon Morse "wedding vacation"? Is that what it's called these days?

 

Wow, am I ever over the hill and out of touch!

 

We called a "Honeymoon". Is that not "PC" anymore?

 

Is "PC" even "PC" anymore? I might be way way way out of touch. hmm.

 

I hope you have a great time! Please be sure to post some pics!

 

May I ask where you are going? I miss traveling.

 

Yup, I was harsh. May I dare to say very harsh?

 

Deserved? I think so. I do believe the viewers deserve at least a few lines of well thought out code to swallow, and I think the guru should be able to put at least 5 minutes of thought into what they are going to serve up. Ideally, they should probably download what they upload as a test to see what it tastes like from the customer's side of the table.

 

But I also believe calling you on it probably tastes harsh only from your side, since I can't flavor the dish your serving. I sure wish it tasted better, and left me nothing short of stuffed and wanting more.

 

On the other hand, if I was the cook, I would be standing up saying "Hey! Your right! Don't eat this slop... forgive me, have a refund, and please let me try again".

 

But thats just me. I give no excuses, and I accept no excuses. I call good as good, bad as bad, and so-so is all I expect these days, as this is a vastly different world today then what I was raised to expect.

 

I'm pretty sure that sports are probably the only place left where excellence might be expected anymore, and since I am not a sports fan, I'm not even sure that is true.

 

I do hope you get that epic raise (assuming it is deserved), and I hope you get some additional time to work on the show. You guys are doing much better.

 

TJoe - Code4Sale, LLC

[G+_Lee Crocker]

Shannon's job is to relate to the audience of newcomers; to speak their language and ask questions from their point of view. She's not really able to evaluate the experts. The last guy, Dale, wasn't a Python programmer at all, but he tried, whereas this new guy clearly is a Perl programmer but he's phoning it in. Padre's in a tough spot--he probably knows enough to evaluate the experts, but has to help them hold back on their examples for the benefit of the newbies, while still being educational. You and I have opinions about what that should look like, but could we create an entertaining show of it? Sure, w could produce better example code, and maybe some nice graphs and animations, but I don't know if that's enough to make a show. It'll be fun to see.

[G+_Joe C. Hecht]

I doubt I would be much fun :(

[G+_Joe C. Hecht]

Lee Crocker I did not realize Shannon was just co-hosting. I thought she had been brought in as pretty much the "producer at large" of all the shows over at TWiT. Perhaps my memory is failing me, or perhaps things changed.