I am thinking of upgrading to a two deadbolt system I want to add a smart lock to compliment a t...

[G+_Jason Perry]

I am thinking of upgrading to a two deadbolt system. I want to add a smart lock to compliment a traditional deadbolt.

 

Does anyone have links to sites that demonstrate a manufacturer's understanding of good or bad digital security practices? I am looking for something that is NOT a cloud based solution and has updatable firmware.

[G+_Black Merc]

I don't think there is such an animal... Cloud-less or guaranteed secure.

[G+_Ben Reese]

I'm thinking of August, but pretty sure it's ? based. I'm not sure of any local-network only products, but I'm interested if you find one.

 

DIY is probably the only way to do it somewhat securely if you don't want to trust someone else's computer. Maybe instructables or Thingiverse?

[G+_J Miller]

Vera and kwikset smartcode. All local.

[G+_Jason Perry]

Black Merc the secure comes from the second lock, well more secure.

[G+_Black Merc]

Jason Perry but what is in the pudding( the saying 'the proof is in the pudding')

Or Wendy's lady 'where's the beef?'

Till you can lockup anything to the state of Fort Knox, I'll wait.

[G+_Jason Perry]

Black Merc I have a hard time believing smart locks will ever be secure, so I do t think I will be eating that pudding any time soon. My wife thinks we live in Detroit, I come home to a house full of people and a locked door. I want a secondary lock so I do t have to search for my keys. I have had times where I don't have my keys because I was out for a walk and I am left knocking on my door.

[G+_Ben Reese]

Jason Perry That's where I think a universal option - even if it's cloud-based - is better than a full replacement. If you advertise on the outside that you have a "Kwikset smart lock", that gives the attacker something to go after. If it's something like the August smart lock that just slips over your existing knob inside, there's no indicator outside that there's a "smart" device.

[G+_Ben Reese]

Also related... It doesn't matter how secure the "smarts" are if the intruder can break in faster. We just moved into a new house and I was going to replace all the locks anyhow, so I decided to test one of the old lock sets. It only took about 15 minutes for me to get in drilling through an older Kwikset deadbolt AND doorknob.

 

Not sure what the neighbors thought, but the police never showed up...

[G+_J Miller]

Any door lock is only as secure as your door jam as that is your weak point.

A simple kick will open most doors.

 

Kiwkset - 70-200$ All local with or without a keypad, Smart key and Z-Wave to integrate with complete home automation / control systems. Used and installed them for years. Never looked back.

If you want better security, get security door screens. They look great right?

 

Also invest in a camera at your front door. Many devices styles to choose from. This will scare away most potentials these days.

[G+_Jason Perry]

I have been looking at the Schlage connect, no app so I am guessing no cloud, you have to have a Z-wave hub for it to be "smart" otherwise it is just a deadbolt with a keypad. Just don't know if you can update the firmware.

[G+_J Miller]

Schlage does not have the smart key ability but does have better build quality than KS but is a bit more expensive.

[G+_Jason Perry]

Smart Key? Is that the key fob that I seen they have? I was thinking about it, I think I am more interested in having a keypad than a fob. If it has a fob it's just going to end up on the same key ring as my house key, then what's the point?

[G+_J Miller]

Smart key is the ability to rekey your lock without taking it apart or hiring a locksmith. I like it because I only need one key for ALL the locks on my doors.

[G+_J Miller]

007systems.com - Kwikset Door Locks Electric Z-Wave

[G+_Jason Perry]

J Miller Ah, I was thinking of getting a pair years ago, but someone told me they don't like theirs; because, the pins don't align as nicely when you rekey them.

 

What is your experience with that?

[G+_J Miller]

I haven't experienced that issue. Whenever I rekey one, it feels like the original key. Usually a little looser because I am using a used key that has been worn a bit.

[G+_Jason Marsh]

TLDR: Don't buy box-store consumer/residential locks, beware the nifty re-keying gizmo, a lock is just a latch, and hide yo kids, hide yo wife.

 

I bought the SmartKey locks a few years back when we bought our home, thinking I'd appreciate the ease of re-keying or the capability to re-key just one door for the housesitter to use. Actually updated/upgraded the locks on my mom's house, my brother's house, and replaced old padlocks with SmartKey padlocks over the last two years. I was happy with them....

 

The SmartKey system uses a re-indexable sidebar instead of pins, so the pinning/cut depth increments are set to standard KS cut depths. Not sure if it really matters a lot when re-keying with a well-used vs. new key, but there must be tolerance built-in. I don't want my locks to let "close enough" in.

 

Since I bought those locks six years ago, I've learned a lot watching hours and hours of video from BosnialBill, LockPickingLawyer, and others on YT, as well as from the videos of talks at the various security cons. I will not purchase a KS lock or handleset of any kind again. I also won't look at any consumer/residential-grade lock as anything more than a shiny latch, operable from outside by either an unmotivated, authorized person, or an unauthorized, but slightly more motivated person.

 

So, like I said, I was happy with them... until a couple of weeks ago I went to re-key a brand new spare that I was going to install on my neighbor's door because she was having problems with her handleset. I used a brand new key, cut by a local locksmith to the pinning of her existing KS locks. Followed the directions verbatim even though I'd done this many times, and it was a complete failure. It's inoperable by the "new" key, any used key of the same cut, or the ones that came with it. Apparently, this is a thing that happens. Good job, KS. Race to the bottom. You win.

 

If you have high-quality doors and windows, installed very well, and good physical security practices, you will get some additional protection from a commercial-grade deadbolt. Really, just the deadbolt has much to do with the security of a typical installation. Nobody is picking, bumping, or decoding installed locks to get into your house. Thieves are acutely aware of the weak points, and are adept at kicking, prying, and smashing their way in. They have not the time or inclination to bother with defeating locks; that's left for security wonks and locksmiths.

 

Reinforce your door jambs, put up a camera or two, buy a good deadbolt and install it properly. Firmware upgradeability and connectivity are worth noting, but neither does much for or against usability if all you need is a set of buttons to punch to get in. I'd rather get into the habit of keeping a spare key in my shoe than add another method of entry to my door.

[G+_J Miller]

Jason Marsh and all a bad guy has to do is break your window to enter your home. Money well spent on those expensive locks.

 

All security, is a trade off with convenience. If someone really wants in, they will find a way in.

I do agree with security backups such as a door sensor or motion sensor to let you know if someone has got the door open but getting expensive commercial grade locks is a waste of money in my opinion.

[G+_Jason Marsh]

J Miller With high-quality, strong doors which have been properly hung, high-security locks are worth it. You can easily find ANSI Grade 1 deadbolts from the mainstream manufacturers for less than fifty dollars each. You don't have to spring for a Medeco or Assa to get much-improved hammer and kick resistance.

 

Back to the windows... well-made double- and triple-pane windows don't tend to yield silently, and security films can be applied at the factory or by the homeowner to drastically improve breaking strength of the window.

 

Your assumption on the value of security improvements is flawed. It assumes the homeowner could not benefit from making any improvements. Anything that makes it even a bit harder for a ne'er do well to get in is absolutely worth the expense and effort. You can leave your windows and doors open if you like, but that'll cost you more in the long run than making a few improvements.

 

I grew up in a neighborhood that was getting rough. Today, it's not safe to be out after dark. Burglaries are common, and the neighbor's truck was stolen twice in the same week, by the same perp, no less. Our home was burglarized several times when I was a kid, and I've been in the home when one was trying to get in. It's not fun.

 

After each time, dad improved only the area where they got in. After all the entry doors were fixed/upgraded in place (not replaced), we got an entry by the only reachable window without a spiny, prickly plant beneath it. That was taken care of, and the home hasn't been broken into in a few decades now. Dad eventually replaced the door that took a shotgun blast, but that wasn't a B&E attempt.

 

Three- and four-inch wood screws replaced every screw in and around my doors to tie the strike plates, hinges, and door frame more firmly to the structure. Longer, heavier strike plates for the latches and deadbolts, and these greatly improve the kick resistance of the entry doors. My windows are the weak point in my home, but only the front windows are reachable and I'm a retired Soldier anyways. If they want in, I'll be here to greet them once they get in and they won't have much time to enjoy the party.

[G+_J Miller]

Good points but you are coming form one point of view.

Crooks are going to take the path of least resistance. putting all of your eggs in one basket will leave you broke and vulnerable in another.

Each case is different as there are many variables to take into consideration including the type of crook you are most likely protecting against. Unless you are rich, I generally say spread your money on various types of security, and look intimidating.

One exposed camera or an alarm sign can do wonders to scare off the experienced yahoos. Kids out to steal your car stereo are a different crowd.

[G+_Jason Marsh]

This sign was in front of my house on a cul-de-sac where all fifteen other homes were either burglarized, vandalized, or otherwise had problems with residents of the two nearby trailer parks. I never had a single problem in four years living there. Beats your fake alarm sign, fo sho!!!