Hey Know-it-all 's!

[G+_Andrew Schwenk]

Hey Know-it-all's! I am looking into building multicopters for farmers, since this is something I am really passionate about I am trying really hard to make this dream a reality; but I have a couple questions. I apologize for the really long post incoming. but I appreciate any input or feedback that you guys have. First off I'll list the builds I am thinking about, and just tell me your thoughts on them. 

 

Quadcopter:

Motors: Cobra 3515/20 650 KV - http://www.cobramotorsusa.com/multirotor-3515-20.html

Props: 1355 RC Timer CF - http://www.rctimer.com/product-920.html

ESC’s: Cobra 30 amp - http://www.cobramotorsusa.com/multirotoresc-30amp.html

Flight Controller: 3DR Pixhawk - https://store.3drobotics.com/products/3dr-pixhawk

Frame: Tarot Ironman 650 - http://www.amazon.com/Tarot-Foldable-Quadcopter-TL65B01-Battery/dp/B00O0NGT8A/ref=sr_1_5?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1442773672&sr=1-5&keywords=tarot+frame

Battery: 5450XL 4S 120C Maxamp - http://www.maxamps.com/proddetail.php?prod=Lipo-5450-148-Packw/ Gimbal and Camera weight = 2923.8 grams, thrust w/ 4S = 8226.8 grams, ratio = 2.81:1

 

(Notice I did not include, gimbal, camera, transmitter, or FPV. I will post these at the end since they are all synonymous between all three models. *flight controller is the same)

 

Hexacopter:

Motors: Cobra 4510/28 420 KV - http://www.cobramotorsusa.com/multirotor-4510-28.html

Props: 1655 RC Timer CF - http://www.rctimer.com/product-923.html

ESC’s: Cobra 30 amp - http://www.cobramotorsusa.com/multirotoresc-30amp.html

Flight Controller: 3DR Pixhawk - https://store.3drobotics.com/products/3dr-pixhawk

Frame: Tarot 680 Pro - http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__54311__Tarot_680PRO_HexaCopter_Folding_Frame_3K_Carbon_KIT_.html

Battery: 10900XL 5S Maxamp - http://www.maxamps.com/proddetail.php?prod=Lipo-10900-185-Packw/ Gimbal and Camera weight = 4835 grams, thrust w/ 5S = 17,847 grams, ratio = 3.69:1

 

Octocopter:

Motors: Cobra 4510/40 310 KV - http://www.cobramotorsusa.com/multirotor-4510-40.html

Props: 1655 RC Timer CF - http://www.rctimer.com/product-923.html

ESC’s: Cobra 30 amp - http://www.cobramotorsusa.com/multirotoresc-30amp.html

Flight Controller: 3DR Pixhawk - https://store.3drobotics.com/products/3dr-pixhawk

Frame: Tarot Ironman T1000 - http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__54327__Tarot_IRON_MAN_T1000_Octo_Copter_Carbon_Fiber_Frame_KIT_TL100B01.html

Battery: 16,000XL 6S 20C Maxamp - http://www.maxamps.com/proddetail.php?prod=Lipo-16000-6S-Packw/ Gimbal and Camera weight = 6492.4 grams, thrust w/ 6S = 18,878.4 grams, ratio = 2.90:1

 

I realize the hexacopter weight to thrust ratio is a little sketchy, and will most likely launch itself out of orbit. Which is why I am coming to you for advice. The gimbal would just be a Zenmuse H3-3D, and the camera would be a GoPro HERO 3+ Silver. I am thinking about putting a Sony NEX or something a little bigger on the Octo since it has more potential than the smaller copters. 

 

The FPV is something I’m a little unsure about. I was just planning on using 3DR’s FPV monitor, transmitter, and OSD. Also I’m not really sure about what the PX4Flow kit is, but would I need it on my copters? And I’m a little unsure about the connections between the Gimbal, and FPV and the transmitter. I can never seem to get my flight controller to use the gimbal effectively, and my remote never has enough ports. To solve this I am planning on using the Futaba 14CH remote -http://www.futabarc.com/systems/futk9410-14sg/index.html. 

 

One last question, what kind of fly times do you think I will get? If I wanted to throw a heavier batter on the hex to weigh it down more and give it more flight time would that be a good idea? I am trying to keep the prices relatively low, but I am finding this hard to do while keeping them powerful enough to withstand winds, and smart enough to fly themselves if need be. The estimated prices are as follows, including 1 battery, charger, 1 set of props, and everything else:

Quadcopter: $2,736

Hexacopter: $3,281

Octocopter: $3,936

 

Thank you for your help!

Andrew Schwenk

[G+_Carlton Dodd]

As a newbie to multi-rotors, I don't have a ton of input on the designs/price point.  My one question is: do farmers really want this?  Enough of them to make this worth your time? 

I wouldn't think farmers would be willing to put in the time to learn to fly and repair a multi-rotor.  How valuable would the information they obtain through flight be to them?

[G+_Andrew Schwenk]

Carlton Dodd I'm glad you mentioned this. The market for agriculture drones is large and growing fast. There are companies such as PrecisionHawk or AgEagle that sell fixed wings on a very large scale. These UAV's run anywhere from $15,000 to $25,000. On the other hand, companies such as DroneDeploy, or PrecisionDrone sell multirotors for agriculture surveying. These run anywhere from $8,000 to $15,000. There is a company in my town selling quadcopters for $5,000 with nothing more than a GoPro and a supersimple gimbal. Since I'm surrounded by farmers on all sides I happen to know quite a few. Many have expressed interest in buying one, but they have no idea where to start. So yes, they do want this.

 

Is there enough to make it worth my time? Not currently. But as a college student, I have nothing but time. And I believe in pursuing your passion. If you love extreme underwater basket weaving, then I say work hard and devote your life to it. If I can do something I love, then time doesn't really matter to me.

 

Would farmers be willing to learn to fly and repair a multirotor? Farmers are mostly busy during planting season, and harvesting season. They have a lot of downtime in between those. And from a hobbyist's perspective flying drones is fun. So not only are they getting the enjoyment of flying out of this, they can also check on their crops like never before. Since I would be selling locally I would most likely drive to their house to service their copter myself.

 

How valuable is this information you ask? More valuable than you can imagine. Precision farming is moving with the information age. Information saves time, and time is money. Not only can you know where to replant, what crops need certain nutrients, or what needs watered. But you can also see wind damage, and other insurance damage. Being able to calculate insurance costs accurately is saving farmers lots of money. In the long run, a $5,000 UAV pales in comparison to a $1,000,000 combine. And the information you can obtain is incredible. Customers of PrecisionDrone have seen an average %10 increase yield per acre. And if you know anything about farming, that adds up really fast when dealing with thousands of acres.

 

Hope this answers your question.

[G+_Jason Perry]

Let me start by explaining my bias.

 

I grew up on a beef and cash crop farm. I moved off the farm about 5 years ago which probably killed my dad on the inside a little bit.

 

As to down time, yes there are slower times of the year, but that is relative. Busy is where you wont see a your dad because he is in the field till 1 or 2 in the morning and is in the field again by 7. So slow is relative. I am also sure this isnt the case with all farmers because there are different work ethics regardless of the occupation.

 

As to is there a market for this the answer is still hell yes. Farmers will spend a good deal of money on tech. If you think those multi rotor prices are expencive, look up the cost of a new combine they are 100k+. You can also find YouTube videos of tractors driving themselves around a field while rhe farmer has a beer on the sidelines.

 

Here is my opinion on the market for this tech. They pretty much have to fly themselves for a farmer to buy it, but they still would pay a company for the analytics it would provide them.

 

I have been looking at this quite a bit and is actually why multi copters interests me.

 

Sorry I cant rant any longer on my cell phone.

[G+_Carlton Dodd]

Jason Perry

That was my guess.  If I were a farmer, I would be more interested in an "air survey" service than doing the job myself.

Sometimes it's easier/better to pay someone $1500/year than to buy $3000 worth of equipment to do it yourself.  (Plus, no maintenance.)

[G+_Jason Perry]

Carlton Dodd I think it is more the not wanting to fly it into the ground, but I see huge potential in the companies doing it. Eventually i could see large farms picking it up then maybe small ones.

 

The information you can collect is huge, public labs has opensource hardware and software that can determin plant health, and there are other projects that will count plant populations. What farmer wouldnt want to be able to better estimate yeilds or make more efficient use of fertilizers and other chemicals. That last point could be a huge savings.

[G+_Andrew Schwenk]

Carlton Dodd There are companies that farmers can pay to survey their crops with drones. There are actually several in my area. One of them only sells 10 surveys at a time. Prices are based on how large the area is and how many times they survey. Syngenta is a leading seed company, but they also do this type of surveying. Prices are about $3+ per acre, and most of the farmers I know have 1100 acres and up. Think about that, I know you can do the math. $1500/year would be nice, but that’s an imaginary figure. 

 

Even if the farmer owned his own DJI Inspire, Phantom 2 Vision +, or 3DR Iris+ the software alone is $4,999 a year. That's not even counting the CoPilot if you want to use your 3DR product. This is the entire reason why I cannot offer self-flying 3D mapping drones. The market is pretty hard to get into if you're not a established company.

[G+_Andrew Schwenk]

Jason Perry  I get it, your father is a hard worker. And we need more farmers like him to keep the agriculture world growing. And yes, I know all about the self-driving combines, we've had this technology for a while now. We even have milk parlors that milk cows without the farmer even having to get off his couch. The technology is incredible.

 

Here's the problem, I realize that farmers are very busy. And not all of them have a lot of downtime. But when the farmer is the one coming to me, asking me about multicopters, then my statement has some truth to it. This farmer has been trying to meet with me for a couple weeks now, but every night he's free I have school. We are in the middle of harvesting, and he's the one contacting me. And don't get me wrong, he doesn't have a small farm by any means.

 

But I digress. The whole point of asking was to see if there were any flaws in my build.