We have the technology to make phone calls and connect to the internet from planes and ships at sea

[G+_George Kozi]

Originally shared by George Kozi

 

We have the technology to make phone calls and connect to the internet from planes and ships at sea. Anywhere on the globe. So... questions:

 

1) Why are we messing around with black boxes we have to search for at the bottom of the sea?

2) Why isn't there a real time data stream from the plain to its home base? A stream with every parameter and cockpit conversation in it.

 

It's a nobrainer, isn't it?

[G+_Matt Lyons]

Because constantly streaming data isn't cheap or easy. Because it's easier to drop a connection than to make sure everything is contained in a black box.

 

It's far from a "no brainer"

[G+_George Kozi]

Is it cheaper to search for the thing? And how expensive can it be, if you can internet on a plane these days.

[G+_Jeff Stevens]

Answer: standards and legacy.

[G+_Matt Lyons]

George Kozi Having to locate one, maybe two blackboxes a year  (with only one every few years being any trouble to locate) compared to having thousands of aircraft constantly beaming data every second of the day, not to mention the cost of getting them all set up to do it. Which do you think is cheaper? 

[G+_George Kozi]

given that these days there is a GPS on everything, it could keep track of planes globally. All the trucks fleets have systems that let headquarters know where they are..

 

And the transmissions from the aircraft need not even be continuous. Data dump every half an hour, and automatic dump whenever an alarm sounds in the cockpit.

[G+_Neil Sedlak]

The satellite systems already support periodic GPS position and performance reporting, with radio based transmission when over land. The only problem is legacy hardware in the airplane ?that isn't the latest version. In the case of the current search, the airline simply hadn't updated it, so the version they had didn't have GPS. The searchers have done some amazing things nonetheless with transponder angles and Doppler calculations.

[G+_George Kozi]

I'm not that technical... does legacy hardware means old crap that should be replaced?

[G+_Neil Sedlak]

Yes, just like when the cell phone providers in the US went digital, rendering all the analog cell phone based OnStar car uplink systems useless without a costly hardware upgrade.

[G+_Jeff Stevens]

Legacy means there's a system in place already that needs to be replaced.  Standards means everyone has to agree on the stndard and implement it.  Considering that air travel is a global system with hundreds of thousands of people involved, teh transition is not an easy, simple, or fast one.

[G+_George Kozi]

passing thought: That disappeared airplane was full of people with GPS devices in their pockets, and the plane had some too, and yet, nobody knows where it went.

[G+_Jeff Stevens]

GPS systems are always GPS receivers.  They depend on cellular connectivity to talk back.  

 

Let me know when you figure out why GPS didn't "tell" us where it was.  

[G+_George Kozi]

yeah, bet those receivers are on phones that could transmit location.

[G+_Neil Sedlak]

There is no cell service at 30,000 feet in the middle of an ocean. The plane itself had a satellite comm system that was establishing a connection but no longer sending data. Think of it like the modem still answered the phone, but the server was gone. Just look at the capabilities of the system that was on this plane: http://www.inmarsat.com/news/faq-inmarsat-aircraft-safety-communications-services/

[G+_Neil Sedlak]

This might also help with understanding the systems in use: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-pacific-26544554

 

And this is pretty much the same argument George is making: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/mar/09/malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-black-box

[G+_Dave Trautman]

George Kozi, although you may have learned a few things today it might be good to let those passing thoughts pass and just keep learning.

 

Two thirds of the world is water. There are a lotta planes up there every single day. NASA does a remarkable job tracking most of them. But – as have been pointed out – not everyone wants to cooperate the way we do in some other places. Suspicious governments sometimes hamper the implementation of open systems and free exchange of information because they believe they are somehow special.

 

Until the mystery of 370 is solved we have to just marvel at how they did so well under such limited circumstances. When I read of how many search aircraft were delayed by traffic controllers not getting permission to allow the planes to land I just have to remind myself so many parts of the world are not as open as some of us are here.