I need to determine how much force is needed to raise a flapper valve in a toilet to properly siz...

[G+_Darrell Sullivan]

I need to determine how much force is needed to raise a flapper valve in a toilet to properly size a solenoid to make a hands free automatic flusher.

 

Does anyone know one of the following?

1. The actual force

2. A formula for calculating the force

3. A source for a quick reading scale with a "peak" function that I can use to measure the force.

4. Some other way for me to find the answer.

 

Thanks!

[G+_Rich Sobocinski]

Depends on the height of water above the flapper

[G+_Black Merc]

8.35lb = 1 us gal.

 

Crazy thought: couldn't you use a valve similar to that in a automated yard sprinkler system?

[G+_jim hatch]

I've seen on youtube a servo horn pulling the chain sideways.

 

When my cat uses the toilet, he paws the seat lid, making it tap against the tank so we will flush it.

Was thinking of making a sensor for that, or maybe weight.

[G+_Ben Reese]

I'm not sure it would be lbs per gallon, but rather pounds per ft of water above the flapper. For example...

At 10" deep, water exerts ~15 psi. If the flapper covers a 1" hole, I think it would take 15 lbs to lift that.

 

With a toilet flapper, I think that peak power is only needed for less than a second because you're really just breaking the seal so buoyancy can take over - so maybe it wouldn't take the full 15 lbs of pressure. I'm sure there are other variables not taken into consideration too.

 

Best way to test is probably with a fish scale.

 

Water pressure calculator: http://www.calctool.org/CALC/other/games/depth_press

[G+_Robert Hafer]

Spring scales are cheap and have lots of uses. Just use one to pull up the flapper and watch the readout.

amazon.com - Ajax Scientific 3 Piece Spring Balance Set: Industrial Spring Scales: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

[G+_Peter Hanse]

Don't forget you could use lever arm to decrease force needed. That is one reason they have one.

[G+_Golden Retriever]

Ok a simpler solution

A motor single rotation and a home position switch,

keep your normal handle leaver setup in toilet add a motor and an eccentric wheel on end of motor shaft. "Eccentric = wheel with non centered shaft"

 

Wheel motor placement, wheel at top of travel should have shaft farthest from top of travel so that highest lift point is equal highest point of bottom of flapper lift arm.

 

Lowest point of wheel should be equal to normal resting point of flapper lift arm.

This should be home position as well.

You will want a micro switch that gets tripped here to indicate home.

 

Operation - your detector will send a pulse just long enough to turn motor / wheel assembly away from home so micro switch closes, "micro switch will be off / open at home" the closed switch will allow a full rotation back to home at which point the switch will reopen stopping the motor.

 

A simple single rotation device,

your detector just bumps motor off home then you get a single rotation till your home again.

 

Nothing fancy, nothing to get out of sync, simple electromechanical action.

 

The wheel can be egg shaped but it's not nessary as just an off center shaft will do, as the wheel rotates under flapper arm it will lift it one time to trigger flush.

 

I hope that is clear, I suck at diagrams and althow explaining the operation of mechanical devices is difficult, I am told I do an adequate job of it.

 

I fix vending machines, the simpler the process the better !

[G+_Golden Retriever]

dsvendinginc.com - Vending machines, vending machine parts, and vending machine service

[G+_Peter Hanse]

google.com - KOHLER K-1954-0 Touchless toilet flush kit - White

[G+_Peter Hanse]

http://www.publickitchensupply.com/p-1684-rubbermaid-auto-flush-tank-style.aspx?gclid=CjwKEAjwgZrJBRDS38GH1Kv_vGYSJAD8j4DfFKhmu5ZrVDRvOOWarwsDmTQb4pjHlFptaOE6SI26xhoCD7Tw_wcB

[G+_Peter Hanse]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01DO7ABHW/ref=asc_df_B01DO7ABHW5000293/?tag=hyprod-20&creative=395033&creativeASIN=B01DO7ABHW&linkCode=df0&hvadid=167155689281&hvpos=1o3&hvnetw=g&hvrand=3724574694949241168&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9017278&hvtargid=pla-304692348666

[G+_Golden Retriever]

Note blue barrel has a flat spot "home position", this flat allows sw to open and interrupt current flow.

All the rest of the rotation, the switch will be held down completing the circuit to power the motor around the rotation.

A square shaft passes through the blue barrel and would be what you affix your eccentric wheel to.

You connect positive power to the normal you closed switch, it passes the positive power to the positive connector on the motor, you connect the ground to the motor ground.

You connect a second positive wire directly to the positive motor connector and your detector.

When your detector trips it will send a short positive power just enough to depress the micro switch and that will continue to provide power till a full rotation is made.

[G+_Rich Sobocinski]

$36 >

https://www.amazon.com/KOHLER-K-1954-0-Touchless-Toilet-Flush/dp/B00JXSASK2/ref=pd_sim_60_2?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=B00JXSASK2&pd_rd_r=ZHZP3V4JXDZFE20Q328Z&pd_rd_w=wuCZy&pd_rd_wg=FJkJQ&psc=1&refRID=ZHZP3V4JXDZFE20Q328Z